This is what the Fourth and Fifth Amendments to the United States Constitution look like now.
Nice to know that anyone, even a legal resident of the U.S. citizen living in the United States, can be declared an “illegal enemy combatant,” thrown in jail, held indefinitely, and allowed no rights of appeal.
Oh well. I guess 80% of the Bill of Rights is better than nothing. But I liked the original version much better.
… And guess what? Apparently 609 law professors share my nostalgia for the old Bill of Rights.
… More interesting reading, courtesy of Prof. Michael Froomkin of the University of Miami School of Law. Turns out Yale Law Prof. Bruce Ackerman thinks this bill will indeed apply to U.S. citizens.
And sorry if people think that this is somehow inappropriate for me to talk about. I don’t make a habit out of expressing my political beliefs here. But I truly believe this issue transcends political lines. Or, to put it in terms that might be more familiar to a modern audience, “You’re either with the Founding Fathers or you’re against them.”
Ed Bott 
Just wanted to say I’ve subscribed to your blog for a long time for the Windows (and Office) Expertise… but now you’re playing politics and acting as an authority on the subject, and it’s not in good taste. Not to mention you need to understand things a little better, as it is said that it does not apply to US citizens:
“Under the bill, a terrorist held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, could be tried by a military commission so long as he was afforded certain rights, such as the ability to confront evidence given to the jury and having access to defense counsel.
Those subject to commission trials would be any person “who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents.” Proponents say this definition would not apply to U.S. citizens.
The bill would eliminate some rights common in military and civilian courts. For example, the commission would be allowed to consider hearsay evidence so long as a judge determined it was reliable. Hearsay is barred from civilian courts.”
I’ve enjoyed your blog, but I have removed it from FeedDemon.
Cheers
-Drew
Bye, Drew. I guess you’ll miss the part where the law professors who looked at this pointed out that there are indeed provisions that apply to U.S. citizens. In fact, if you followed that link you could read a scholarly discussion by Professor Froomkin of the University of Miami School of Law and the text of the law itself. And you could see the names of all the law professors who are horrified by this. As am I.
I deliberately avoid many political topics here, but this one really hits home for me. If you don’t like it, sorry. I can’t keep my mouth shut.
Oh well. I hear the First Amendment is next on the list for shredding.
Thank you for NOT keeping your mouth shut, Ed. People go about their merry ways thinking nothing like this will ever affect them. And then you end up like Maher Arar, Canadian citizen with no terrorist ties who was held at a US airport, transferred to Syria and tortured into a false confession. When it was found that he was completely innocent, the US couldn’t even say “sorry”. And now, they can do it to you. It’s a sad day in America.
Hi Ed,
I also enjoy and appreciate your Windows knowledge and expertise very much. Thank you for the work on this blog.
I know it’s your blog and all, and you are obviously passionate about foreign enemy combatants. But there are thousands of political blogs out there with many different types of expertise. I just think this post dilutes the special value your blog has (especially when there are fact problems, re:citizens).
I agree with Mike. Thanks for speaking up Ed. The fact that Drew is willing to “look the other way” and quote proponents of the bill without bothering to inform himself about what detractors are saying concerns them tells me everything I need to know about how he forms his opinion.
This is not a time to be burying our heads in the sand and “hoping for the best”. This administration and the current Congress have done more to take away, abridge, and reinterpret our liberties than any other in my lifetime. These are dark days in America and history will not reflect kindly on those currently in power and the venality of their agenda.
My best prayer is that we will have a flip of at least one chamber in the mid-term elections to restore a semblance of checks and balances to our system.
Huzzah! Some topics are too important to not address.
I saw this a few minutes after reading an article about H.R.5825. It is really shocking how much liberty has been stripped away for a modicum of “security”.
And it gets better! Bob Parks writes: “The nation was distracted this week: the leaked Intelligence Estimate on Iraq, a terrifying new report on global warming, continued high gas prices, a White House lobbying scandal that grew from “a few” contacts with Jack Abramoff to 485, not to mention the news that two men have stepped forward claiming to be the father of Anna Nicole Smith’s baby. That allowed the House to quietly pass H.R. 2679, the “Public Expressions of Religion Protection Act of 2006,” with scarcely a mention in the media. The bill would prevent plaintiffs from recovering legal costs in any lawsuit based on the “establishment clause” of the First Amendment, which of course only happens when the court finds the plaintiff’s Constitutional rights have been denied. The Senate is expected to pass a companion bill, S. 3696. Congress cannot simply abridge the Bill of Rights. Maybe they think the Supreme Court is stacked. Or maybe it’s the election.”
So the Administrations shreds the constitution, and Congress even helps them out.
The last recourse is the courts, and with all the screaming about activist judges, it’s not looking good for this nation.
I guess I can expect the 2nd American Civil War in my lifetime.
Drew, you are overreacting. The political posts here are few and far between, and easy to bypass if you are so inclined. You will not find a better source of Windows information anywhere.
You go, Ed. This is much too important to ignore.
I agree with Ed Bott. If the U.S. Constitution does not apply to everyone, regardless of nationality, the terrorists will have won.
We are all Americans. Or, at least, we should all be. That is, at least as far as the Constitution is concerned. And by that I don’t mean that we should all have to live by the U.S. Constitution, which would make no sense for people who aren’t actuall Americans, but that the good parts at least of the Constitution should automatically apply.
The U.S. Constitution is a good thing, as we can all agree–regardless of our nationality. And what could be worse than a good thing not applying to everyone?
Ed, you obviously didn’t read the legislation. Each of your claims about it are dead WRONG! Instead of listening/reading the doomsayers & conspiracy theorist, why don’t you go the source and see for yourself. In the last 24 hours, the amount of misinformation about this legistlation and even about the current law regarding the fourth amendment and appeals of criminal cases has been amazing, including on the floor of the Senate.
Normally unlawful combatants are summarily executed on the battlefield. As they should be. There are rules for warfare. So far, most of the enemy has never actually abided by the Geneva Convention. They are not signatories.
They like the to saw the heads off of civilians and soldiers alike. The violate every rule book. Should the US soldiers have to arrest and try enemy combatants too?
But go ahead. Kiss their *sses.
Your websites are now off my favorites list.
Being lectured by ignorant morons like you is not my idea of entertainment.
Ed, I think it is important that people talk about these things so please keep on doing it.
This is what happens in the age of Digg related news sources. Yes everyone should be concerned with new legislation but you need to remain level headed and calm before overreacting. The internet has spread more Myths about the many things, including this. Everyone who did not read the Patriot Act blew that way out of proportion:
http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/u_myths.htm
http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/add_myths.htm
I respect everyone’s opinion but to say that the 4th amendment no longer applies is irresponsible.
As is removing Ed from your feedreader. Software and politics are two very different things. Ed is without a doubt one of the most invaluable sources on Windows related information.
Bruce,
Thanks for elevating the discourse. Very classy.
Somehow, after World War II, we managed to arrest and try some of the most brutal monsters in human history. They got public trials, with a full defense and all the legal protections that civilized people have accorded to anyone – anyone – accused of criminal acts since the days of the Magna Carta.
I want to keep that.
Andrew, don’t get me started on the Patriot Act. Seriously. I read it, and I simply disagree with the Attorney General.
During WWII we tried the big names, like we are with Saddam but the low level officers and soldiers were tried in tribunals and well we never heard about what happened to the ones we caught out of uniform AKA terrorists.
Read the Patriot Act Myth links I posted, it clarifies many of the misconceptions about it.
Andrew, the original post was not about the Patriot Act and I already made it clear I don’t want this discussion to ramble off into unrelated areas. Period.
You are aware that many of the people held in Guantanamo as dangerous terrorists were picked up by local warlords who were paid a bounty for handing them over to us? And that a number of them are unequivocally innocent but have been denied any right to challenge their confinement? You might want to read this story, for instance.
This is not about defending bad people or being soft on terrorism. It’s about providing due process of law for everyone accused of crimes so that there can be no doubt that the law is being applied fairly. Justice is actually much more effective when it’s dealt with dispassionately and publicly. I don’t understand the need to suddenly throw away 800 years of common law legal protections.
The constitution and our laws only apply to American Citizens, it is absolute insanity to apply those rights to non Americans. Now with that being said the Geneva Conventions apply to captured enemy soldiers not enemy combatants. This guy was captured because they found him with 700 weapons. It wasn’t like they picked up some old guy off the street to be mean like the article implies. Sure he claims the weapons for “decomission”, right what weapons get “decomissioned” in afghanistan? If you are a general on the ground fightin a war and you find a guy with this type of ordinance you take him prisoner.
You don’t fight a war with lawyers.
Andrew, go read the Hamdan decision from the Supreme Court. Nearly everything you wrote here is wrong.
Of course you don’t fight a war with lawyers. But when you hold people for trial, you follow judicial procedures. And the U.S. Constitution applies to anyone held under American law, not just citizens. If you arrest someone and hold them in a prison run by Americans, you follow the Constitution. The facts are not the issue in the case of the 78-year-old man. The issue is that there has to be judicial oversight. If the government has a legitimate case for saying he’s a danger, then at a bare minimum that person should be allowed to have that basic case established. You CANNOT hold someone in a secret prison just because you claim he’s a bad man. If he is such a terrible person, why was he released after three years with no charges, no trial, no nothing? Again, go read the Hamdan decision.
And on that note, I will apply the rule I have followed with all political discussions on this blog. Comments are now closed. If you disagree with something I wrote, post your response on your own blog and ping a trackback here. It’ll show up in the comments and anyone can go read it. If you don’t have a blog and you feel passionately about this subject, go to Blogger and start one. It’s free and easy.
Right Ed,
The US of A was once a beacon proudly shining in a turbulant world. But now it’s a dark and sinister empire.
Many thanks to G.W. Bush and the people of the US of A which decided to elected this moran twice.
It’s unforgivable.
Greetings from Holland.
Erik